SongWriter Season 6 Continues With Ben Okri & Matshidiso

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SongWriter is a podcast that turns stories into songs, featuring David Gilmour (Pink Floyd), Joyce Carol Oates, Steve Earle, David Sedaris, Susan Orlean, Craig Finn (The Hold Steady), and Questlove.

Ben Okri was knighted by King Charles in 2023, but he does not prefer the honorific title of “Sir Ben.” Knighthood is an ancient tradition, he points out, going back more than a thousand years. And while in the old days a knight might be expected to fight for the king, Ben Okri prizes a different tradition, in which knights undertake acts of charity for the poor, the lonely, and people in need.

“I prefer the more honorable, enlightened tradition,” Ben says with a smile.

For the final episode of season six, Ben reads his short story “A Wrinkle in the Realm.” The story centers on a character who feels rejected and isolated by his co-workers and neighbors. As in much of his writing, the narrative follows what Ben describes as “dream logic,” in a style of storytelling that he connects with creativity and music.

“Almost all creativity comes from the underworld, from the unconscious,” Ben argues. “You are participating in dream logic if you like the works of Mozart or Beethoven or Miles Davis or John Coltrane. It’s just a different way of leading the mind into the mysteries of storytelling.”

Stanford’s Dr. Tomás Jiménez studies issues of belonging and assimilation and polarization. Ben’s story made him think about the recent election, and whether America still defines itself as a nation of immigrants. This concept was popularized and embraced in the middle of the last century, Dr. Jiménez notes, but whether the identity still fits today is an open question.

“Social polarization is about people competing over what the story is of us,” Dr. Jiménez says. “And we have to find a way to tell a story about the national us that has common threads but that not all the threads are necessarily the same.”

Because Ben Okri is an accomplished songwriter—having recently co-written with Damon Albarn (Gorillaz, Blur) and Tony Allen and Harper Simon—he volunteered to collaborate on the song with musician and podcaster Matshidiso. The two artists bounced ideas and lyrics back and forth, and quickly came up with a song structure and melody. Matshidiso sent Ben a rough demo recording, and says she was relieved that he liked it.

“Once you get the ‘I like it,’ you’re fine,” Matshidiso says. “The only challenge is when you can’t find the commonality, or you’re not liking the same things and trying to understand each other.”

This is Matshidiso’s second episode of SongWriter, having written a song in response to a memoir by Charlie Gilmour. For this story, and the song she wrote with Ben Okri, Matshidiso reflected on her own sense of belonging, her parents, and especially her Christian faith.

“They say that people in the navy who are trying to avoid sea-sickness, they look at the horizon because it’s constant,” Matshidiso says. “For me, the love of God is constant. It’s the horizon, and I’m always brought back to it.”

Season six of SongWriter is made possible by a grant from Templeton World Charity Foundation.